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(Comparative) study (in structure/mode/ways of pronunciation, articulation, phonetics, or whatever; that is, in differences of speaking mouth postures and resultant speaking weight/force center points) between English/foreign languages and mother tongue, for better (more practical/effective/smooth) hearing/speaking of English/foreign languages.       Copyright.   Young-Won Kim,   yw@voicespec.com
open : home | main | Kor | book | FUN member : main II | Kor II


::: Comparative phonetics, brd2 :::


90 11 View counter   Join Member Login Admin
Name   Young-Won Kim
Subject   Diaphragm/phonetics
----- Original Message -----
From: James Mesbur
To: ygwnkm
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Diaphragm/phonetics


On 11/4/07, ygwnkm < ygwnkm@yahoo.co.kr> wrote:
* I asked, but no reply.
Do you have tried to test/feel the method of < The article of (No. 95) "Diaphragm" > at all?      Or though you have tried, could you feel nothing on the hemi-diaphragms or near them?    

I HAVE READ THROUGH YOUR ARTICLE #95 SEVERAL TIMES AND I SEE NOTHING TO "TRY" OR "FEEL". YOU HAVEN'T DESCRIBED ANYTHING THAT REMOTELY RESEMBLES AN EXPERIMENT. YOU SIMPLY STATE THINGS AND EXPECT PEOPLE TO ACCEPT THEM.

OTHER THINGS YOU HAVE WRITTEN WHICH ARE NONSENSICAL AND NOT BASED ON ANY EVIDENCE:

"1. Most phoneticians classify m/n/ŋ as NASAL, and p/b/t/d/k/g as PLOSIVE in the manner of articulation, while I now find/think that m/n/ŋ are also PLOSIVE, which tense/resonate the NASAL CAVITY also.  
YOU KNOW "FIND/THINK" m/n/ŋ ARE PLOSIVE? WHAT DOES PLOSIVE MEAN TO YOU? THIS IS NONSENSE.

2. [l] is FRICATIVE in the manner of articulation, though LATERAL in the place of pronunciation, though the sound nuance/tone of [l/r] is liquid:.....     [r] is 'GLIDE/ROLL'."
NO, [l] (IN ENGLISH) IS NOT FRICATIVE IN MANNER. DO YOU KNOW WHAT FRICATIVE MEANS?

"I now feel/think/find that ancient English/German/French/etc. (particularly, English) pronunciations (at least, of numbers) are (quite) different from modern ones (of the same words/spellings) because of differences of speaking (type of [be+nd]/[+bend]/etc. and) mouth posture between ancient inventors and modern users.     I guess that ancient English inventors and modern English (British) users (and maybe borrowers/inheritors) might be quite different from each other in race."
HUH? HAVE YOU EVER STUDIED HISTORICAL LINGUISTICS AND THE GENERAL PRINCIPLES OF SOUND CHANGE??? YOUR STATEMENTS ARE NONSENSICAL.

"Korean does not seem to have/speak those official phonetic transcription equivalents."
NONSENSICAL. PHONETIC TRANSCRIPTION IS AN ABSTRACTION FROM FINE PHONETIC DETAIL. THE SOUND A SYMBOL REPRESENTS IN ONE LANGUAGE MAY BE QUITE DIFFERENT FROM THAT IN ANOTHER LANGUAGE. KOREAN IS NOT "SPECIAL" AS YOU CLEARLY BELIEVE IT TO BE.

I COULD GO ON AND ON AND ON, BUT PAGE AFTER PAGE OF YOUR SO-CALLED "RESEARCH" IS JUST COMPLETE GIBBERISH. THERE IS NO CONTENT HERE.

* Anyhow,     test/feel the method of < The article of (No. 95) "Diaphragm" >    hopefully with your LINGUISTICS/phonetics fellows and let me know the results: then I will reply to your usual nonscientific/absurd (below) questions/etc.

AGAIN, THERE IS NOTHING DESCRIBED FOR ANYONE TO ACTUALLY "DO" IN YOUR ARTICLE. YOU SIMPLY STATE THINGS WHICH ARE NOT TRUE.

ARE YOU AFRAID TO ANSWER MY QUESTIONS DIRECTLY? WHAT MAKES THEM "NONSCIENTIFIC/ABSURD" IN YOUR OPINION? I HAVE EXPLAINED CLEARLY AND REPEATEDLY WHY I BELIEVE YOUR RESEARCH TO BE NON-SCIENTIFIC. YOU HAVEN'T RESPONDED AT ALL TO ANY OF MY QUESTIONS. WHY? ARE YOU AFRAID?

 
The test of the method of < The article of (No. 95) "Diaphragm" > will take ten seconds or one minute.
YOU HAVE STATED THIS REPEATEDLY. THERE IS NOTHING TO "TEST". NOTHING THAT I CAN FIND IN YOUR ARTICLE #95. NOTHING AT ALL.  



==================


 
----- Original Message -----
From: ygwnkm
To: James Mesbur
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 1:57 PM
Subject: Diaphragm/phonetics

* < The article of (No. 95) "Diaphragm", Column 1 > reads as follows:

1. (Open/closed-mouthed) tests show that voiceless/unresonated (or least-resonated, pure; so, quiet/feeble; not voiced; in order not to tense/resonate other resonators;    that is, relaxing all resonators including the vocal cords except the inevitable mouth; for test purpose to find the voice origin) voices are felt ORIGINating/coming at/from the bottoms of the two (lateral) lungs;    that is, the DIAPHRAGM vibrations are felt.       - - - and so on.      


>> I HAVE READ THROUGH YOUR ARTICLE #95 SEVERAL TIMES AND I SEE NOTHING TO "TRY" OR "FEEL". YOU HAVEN'T DESCRIBED ANYTHING THAT REMOTELY RESEMBLES AN EXPERIMENT. YOU SIMPLY STATE THINGS AND EXPECT PEOPLE TO ACCEPT THEM.


* My above test was tried to find (genuine) voice source/vibrator/etc., if the vocal-tract-like organs can not produce human-language-like sound/voice (for example, a, e, i, o, u, etc. - - most simple sounds).       When guitar strings and drum leathers are tensed, they produce real music-like sounds.    That is, (not relaxed but) tensed strings and leathers (help to) produce real music-like sounds.     Since we/I want to find (genuine) voice source/vibrator/etc.,    I possibly relaxed all the vocal-tract-like organs (between the feet and the head) except minimum something of the mouth so as to produce the (continuous/feeble) vowels (aaaaa---,  eeee---, iiii---,   oooo----,   uuuu---, in these way) of minimum/primitive/simple language-like voice/sounds.     In these relaxed condition of the body, I felt/found that the area below both the lung bottoms (that is, the hemi-diaphragms) is boil/vibrating,    which means that voices comes at/from the bottoms of the two (lateral) lungs; that is, the hemi-diaphragms,      which fact has been confirmed by the continuous/followed study which are shown on the following articles.


>>   "1. Most phoneticians classify m/n/ŋ as NASAL, and p/b/t/d/k/g as PLOSIVE in the manner of articulation, while I now find/think that m/n/ŋ are also PLOSIVE, which tense - - - and so on.  

* I have made many modifications at/on the following articles, according to many/new continuous discoveries,   which all I hope you read.  


http://voicespec.com/board.cgi?id=test1
http://voicespec.com/
Young-Won Kim
ygwnkm@yahoo.co.kr , ygwnkm@hotmail.com ,

 
----- Original Message -----
From: James Mesbur
To: ygwnkm
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 11:49 AM
Subject: Re: Diaphragm/phonetics


=================


 
----- Original Message -----
From: James Mesbur
To: ygwnkm
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:18 PM
Subject: Re: Diaphragm/phonetics


On 11/4/07, ygwnkm < ygwnkm@yahoo.co.kr> wrote:
* < The article of (No. 95) "Diaphragm", Column 1 > reads as follows:

1. (Open/closed-mouthed) tests show that voiceless/unresonated (or least-resonated, pure; so, quiet/feeble; not voiced; in order not to tense/resonate other resonators;    that is, relaxing all resonators including the vocal cords except the inevitable mouth; for test purpose to find the voice origin) voices are felt ORIGINating/coming at/from the bottoms of the two (lateral) lungs;    that is, the DIAPHRAGM vibrations are felt.       - - - and so on.

THIS IS NOT A *TEST* OF ANY SORT. THIS IS YOU "FEELING" SOMETHING. YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHERE THE SOURCE IS JUST BY FEELING. YOU MUST USE AN EXTERNAL DEVICE TO MEASURE WHERE THE SOURCE OF SOUND IS. AGAIN, THERE IS NOTHING TO "DO" HERE. THERE IS NO "TEST".

"the DIAPHRAGM vibrations are felt"
WHAT??? THIS IS SILLY AND RIDICULOUS. WHAT "FEELS" THEM? THE DIAPHRAGM IS NOT THE SOURCE OF SOUND. THE LUNGS PUSH AIR PAST THE VOCAL FOLDS, CAUSING THEM TO VIBRATE DUE TO THE BERNOULLI EFFECT. THIS HAS BEEN SHOWN AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN USING ACTUAL CADAVERS, INSTRUMENTS, ETC. WHY SHOULD ANYONE BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU "FEEL"?

LIKE I SAID, THIS IS NOT REPEATABLE BY ANY OTHER PERSON. YOU ARE A FAKE, MISLEADING, RUDE, AND ANTI-INTELLECTUAL. YOUR "STUDIES" ARE NOT VALID IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. YOU STATE THINGS WITH ZERO PROOF AND EXPECT PEOPLE TO BELIEVE YOU HAVE SOMEHOW DISCOVERED THAT THE ENTIRE LAST 300 YEARS OF PHONETIC RESEARCH ARE JUNK? WOW. YOU ARE ARROGANT AND PRESUMPTUOUS.

AND AGAIN, YOU HAVE NOT RESPONDED TO A SINGLE QUESTION I HAVE ASKED. THIS IS A COWARD'S BEHAVIOR.
 
* My above test
THIS IS NOT A 'TEST' OF ANY KIND.

was tried to find (genuine) voice source/vibrator/etc., if the vocal-tract-like organs can not produce human-language-like sound/voice (for example, a, e, i, o, u, etc. - - most simple sounds).  
BUT THEY CAN, AND DO. DO YOU DENY THIS???

     When guitar strings and drum leathers are tensed, they produce real music-like sounds.  
NO, GUITAR STRINGS AND DRUM LEATHERS ONLY PRODUCE SOUND WHEN PLUCKED OR STRUCK. TENSING MERELY PREPARES THEM TO PRODUCE SOUND AT THE DESIRED PITCH.

  That is, (not relaxed but) tensed strings and leathers (help to) produce real music-like sounds.
OK, BUT SO WHAT? THIS ANALOGY SHOULD BE MADE WITHE THE VOCAL FOLDS, NOT THE DIAPHRAGM.

    Since we/I want to find (genuine) voice source/vibrator/etc.,  
IT HAS BEEN FOUND MANY TIMES. IT IS THE VOCAL FOLDS WHICH ARE VIBRATING. DO YOU DENY THIS??

  I possibly relaxed all the vocal-tract-like organs
DID YOU MEASURE HOW MUCH YOU ACTUALLY RELAXED? WAS THIS SIMPLY YOUR OWN PHYSICAL FEELING? DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO COMPLETELY RELAX MUSCLES IN YOUR BODY? THEY ALWAYS MAINTAIN A SMALL AMOUNT OF TENSION.

(between the feet and the head)
YOU CAN ONLY DO THIS IF YOU ARE DEAD.

except minimum something of the mouth so as to produce the (continuous/feeble ) vowels
WHAT'S A "FEEBLE" VOWEL? AND WHAT'S "SOMETHING OF THE MOUTH"?

 (aaaaa---,  eeee---, iiii---,   oooo----,   uuuu---, in these way) of minimum/primitive/simple language-like voice/sounds.
PLEASE DEFINE HOW THESE ARE "PRIMITIVE". THAT MAKES NO SENSE.

     In these relaxed condition of the body, I felt/found that the area below both the lung bottoms (that is, the hemi-diaphragms) is boil/vibrating,
JUST BECAUSE YOU "FEEL" THIS DOESN'T MEAN IT'S TRUE. DID YOU HAVE A DOCTOR OR SCIENTIST VERIFY THIS ON YOUR OWN BODY? IF NOT, WHY NOT? WHY DO YOU SAY "BOIL". WHAT IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN?

   which means that voices comes at/from the bottoms of the two (lateral) lungs;
IT MEANS NOTHING OF THE SORT. ALL IT MEANS IS THAT YOU BELIEVE IT TO BE TRUE, BUT IT IS NOT TRUE.

 that is, the hemi-diaphragms,      which fact has been confirmed by the continuous/followed study which are shown on the following articles.
NOTHING HAS BEEN CONFIRMED. YOU FELT IT, SO YOU STATE IT IS TRUE, AND THEN YOU ASSUME IT TO BE TRUE FOR THE REST OF YOUR WRITINGS, MAKING THEM INVALID.

* I have made many modifications at/on the following articles, according to many/new continuous discoveries,   which all I hope you read.
THEN YOU ADMIT YOU MAY NOT HAVE FOUND THE "TRUE PHONETIC FACTS" AS YOU CLAIM REPEATEDLY. MAYBE YOU ARE WRONG ABOUT THE DIAPHRAGM, TOO. I KNOW YOU ARE, BECAUSE I HAVE STUDIED THIS INTENSELY FOR THE PAST 15 YEARS. YOU CLEARLY HAVE ZERO PHONETIC EDUCATIONAL BACKGROUND.


==============


 
----- Original Message -----
From: ygwnkm
To: James Mesbur
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:01 AM
Subject: DIAPHRAGM; NOT A *TEST* OF ANY SORT

>> You said  I would like to verify your results and re-create your experiments myself so I can trust your conclusions.

But you do not test/experiment anything; then what/how can you verify (without test/experiment/etc.)?

I will put our up-to-now talks with your details of name/university/etc. on my homepage in order visitors to see/decide who is absurd/silly between us.
http://voicespec.com/board.cgi?id=test2


http://voicespec.com/board.cgi?id=test1
http://voicespec.com/
Young-Won Kim
ygwnkm@yahoo.co.kr , ygwnkm@hotmail.com ,


=============


 
----- Original Message -----
From: James Mesbur
To: ygwnkm
Sent: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:06 PM
Subject: Re: DIAPHRAGM; NOT A *TEST* OF ANY SORT

>> You said  "I would like to verify your results and re-create your experiments myself so I can trust your conclusions."
 
But you do not test/experiment anything; then what/how can you verify (without test/experiment/etc.)?
THAT'S MY POINT. YOU DON'T DESCRIBE ANY METHOD FOR PERFORMING THIS "TEST". THEREFORE IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO "TEST".

I will put our up-to-now talks with your details of name/university/etc. on my homepage in order visitors to see/decide who is absurd/silly between us.

PLEASE DO!!!

Send this message to email View Printable version
DATE: 2007.11.07 - 11:19

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22Now readingDiaphragm/phonetics Y... 2007.11.07
21Simple viewyale,  purdue,  uchicago,  stanford,  nyu,  umich,  hawaii,  harvard,  uoregon Y... 2007.09.19
20Simple viewLinguistList,    Wikipedia Y... 2007.11.08
19Simple viewNorway; @hf.ntnu, @nor.uib, @iln.uio, @hum.uit, Y... 2007.08.07
18Simple viewFinland; @helsinki, @joensuu, @campus.jyu, @oulu, @uta, @utu, @uwasa, @abo, Y... 2007.08.07
17Simple view@rice.edu, @ku.edu, @byu.edu, @msu.edu, @gsu.edu, @berkeley.edu, Y... 2007.07.19
16Simple view@udel, @ucsc, @mit, @indiana, @mail.utexas, @cornell, Y... 2007.07.02
15Simple view18th International Congress of Linguists Y... 2007.06.18
14Simple view@u.washington ; @u.arizona; @ling.ohio-state  Y... 2007.06.18
13Simple viewCanadian phonetics Y... 2007.06.06
12Simple viewBritish phonetics Y... 2007.05.15
11Simple viewPhonetics, Sweden, uu.se, umu.se, su.se, kth.se, gu.se Y... 2007.05.15
10Simple viewUSC phonetics Y... 2007.04.13
9Simple viewPhonetics of Lund University, Sweden Y... 2007.03.23
8Simple viewUni-Stuttgart.de/phonetik Y... 2007.03.23
7Simple viewPhonetik in Deutschland Y... 2007.05.25
6Simple viewProfessor Wolfgang Hess, Universitt Bonn. Y... 2007.08.15
5Simple viewUCLA Phonetics Y... 2007.03.12
4Simple viewChallenge to upenn phonetics/phonology Y... 2007.02.24
3Simple viewWhat kind of response are you expecting? New person/UPenn Y... 2007.02.24
2Simple viewthat of a reasonable academic, UPenn Y... 2007.02.24
1Simple viewUltimate knowledge. UPenn Y... 2007.03.02
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